How to Survive and Thrive as a Busy Working Parent | Deb Liu (CEO Ancestry)
One of my favorite conversations of the year and a must-watch for parents
Dear subscribers,
Today, I want to share a new episode with Deb Liu.
Deb is the CEO of Ancestry, former VP at Meta, and writer of Perspectives, but for our interview, I wanted to talk about a more personal topic:
How to survive and thrive as a busy working parent with your spouse, aging parents, and kids.
In our interview, Deb shared her best advice on building a 60-60 relationship with your spouse, raising resilient kids, caring for aging parents, and dealing with grief.
Watch now on YouTube, Apple, and Spotify.
Deb and I talked about:
(00:00) How to stop parenting through guilt
(01:19) Building a 60-60 relationship with your spouse
(03:05) Choosing your marriage swim lanes
(05:41) A simple ritual for authentic family conversations
(09:51) Why the world isn't set up for two working parents
(12:24) How to solve stressful mornings
(17:29) The sandwich generation and dealing with grief
(21:38) How to build your modern village
(27:49) Raising resilient kids as a busy parent
(35:19) Closing words of advice for balancing career and family
Building a 60-60 relationship with your spouse
Welcome, Deb! To start off, can you share more about this idea of building a 60-60 relationship?
I met my husband, David, during my first weekend in college. Most people spend more time planning their weddings than their marriages, but from the beginning, we wanted to be intentional about our partnership.
I believe in a 60-60 marriage, where both people are putting in 60%.
I think that’s much better than a 50-50 marriage, where you and your spouse are constantly trying to divide responsibilities evenly. Circumstances are constantly changing, especially when both partners work full-time, so it makes sense that ownership of different responsibilities will ebb and flow.
How do you manage the daily balance of responsibilities when both parents have demanding tech careers?
David and I use a "swim lane" system, where if one person commits to handling something, they handle it completely—and the other person doesn't complain about how it gets handled. For example, my husband does all the grocery shopping, while I do all the cooking based on what he buys. For vacations, he plans everything and hands me a Google Doc with the schedule, while I ensure the kids are packed and ready.
The key to making this work is trusting each other and finding harmony. You can't manage your spouse like you would manage coworkers. When there are pet peeves—like how he never empties the recycling until the designated day—you learn to work around them, rather than fight about them. As long as each person is doing what they say they’re going to do, the specifics are up to them.
How do you handle communication and conflict resolution?
For a long time, especially when the kids were young, we would take walks every night to reconnect. Now we walk together once or twice a week. We try to practice what we call “conscious renegotiation,” having structured discussions about redistributing responsibilities.
For example, when I returned exhausted from a long trip, we needed to handle both taxes and college applications for our son. We discussed it and divided the tasks based on our strengths: I handled the taxes, since I'm on Intuit's board, while David managed the college application process. We trust each other completely to own our responsibilities without nagging.
How do you balance responsibilities when one spouse is busier at work?
The distribution of labor changes with the different seasons of life. When we first had kids, I worked part-time and handled more at home. When my husband was working intensely at Google, he had less flexibility, so we readjusted. Now he works at a startup with varying intensity, while I travel frequently, so again, we’ve adapted our roles accordingly. David handles tasks requiring physical presence, like carpools, while I manage things that can be done remotely. The key is supporting each other through these shifting phases.
Managing responsibilities as two working parents
What’s been your experience navigating a world that’s not set up for two working parents?
Well, just think about the school system. Schools schedule events at inconvenient times—publishing parties at 10 AM, parent-teacher conferences at noon, and concerts in the afternoons requiring multiple drop-offs and pickups. With no public transportation and different dismissal times, it can be maddening when you have a full-time job.
The logistics can also get incredibly complex. At one point, we had three kids in four different schools: elementary school, middle school, high school, and Chinese school. Getting everyone to the right place at the right time would have been impossible for just the two of us. We were lucky to have supportive parents.
As working parents, we should acknowledge that we need help from family.
The more open we can be about needing help, the less stigma there will be around asking for it. About 70% of women with children under 18 work full-time or significant part-time hours. Without family nearby, it would be nearly impossible to do everything.
I love that. I’m jealous when people without kids talk about their mornings. My mornings are crazy trying to get my two kids ready for school.
Yes! Who has time for cold showers and meditation in the mornings? Just getting the kids up, cooking breakfast, and making lunch is crazy enough. The truth is, I couldn’t have achieved everything I did in my career without help at home.
Mornings were always the most stressful hour of our day, getting three kids ready when someone lost their shoe or someone’s homework was missing. When our nanny retired, I begged her to come back just to help get them out the door. She would come for an hour each morning to help get the kids ready, cook them a proper breakfast instead of throwing cereal bars at them on the way out, and drive them to school.
Just that little bit of extra help transformed our previously chaotic mornings, and having her spend that time with the kids in her final years was precious to both them and us.
One of my most popular tweets ever is that the only parenting hack is to live close to the grandparents.
It’s so true. When my in-laws moved closer to us in 2016, it made our lives much easier. If a child got sick, there was someone who could pick them up instead of us frantically deciding which parent would cancel their meetings.
Parents who have help often don't talk about it enough, which makes those without help feel like they're failing. I'm open about the significant help we've had. I couldn't have achieved what I have in my career without it.
I often feel guilty when I have to miss a school event due to work. How do you deal with this guilt, manage kids’ expectations, and make the right trade-offs?
I have a "no regrets" model of parenting.
I decided early on that I didn’t want to parent through guilt.
Instead of looking backward, I focus on how to make up for it the next time. For example, when I miss an event because I’m traveling, I’ll plan special time with the kids when I get back. That being said, you have to make the right trade-offs. When the kids were young, I rarely traveled. Even today, one of us always tries to be available for important events.
We also create regular rituals like family dinners, game nights, and movie nights—phone-free time where we all give each other our undivided attention. Having those touchstones is important because that's what the kids will remember: those times when you invested in being present with them.
Ultimately, I would encourage parents to focus on looking for the next opportunity to connect, rather than dwelling on regret about what they’ve missed.
I love that. I often have to remind myself to put the phone away when I’m spending time with my kids. Being present is so important.
The sandwich generation and caring for elderly parents
You've been really open about caring for both young kids and aging parents at the same time. What surprised you most about this phase of life?
Let's talk about the sandwich generation - having young kids and aging parents at the same time. How long were you part of this experience?
When my dad passed away, my youngest daughter had just turned 13, and my mom moved in with us. She lived with us for almost 12 years, including eight years fighting stage-four cancer, defying the odds. She only recently passed away.
In 2016, my in-laws moved nearby, since my husband is an only child. It was hard traveling across the country to North Carolina multiple times a year, so we asked if they wanted to move closer. They lived in our old house, which allowed us to see them regularly.
Things became especially challenging during COVID since they couldn't get much help. My mom had a caregiver come for a few hours every day to help with appointments, but it was still incredibly stressful. When emergencies happened, like when my mom broke her knee and needed surgery, our plans would change.
My sister and I often said we were "one fall away from disaster."
As my mom got older, she became less steady, but I'm grateful for that time together. She taught me how to cook many traditional dishes, and when she stopped cooking, I was able to make the meals from my childhood. Sometimes our parents helped us; sometimes we helped them. That's the natural give-and-take in relationships.
It seems like a cultural thing. Our elderly parents not only raised us but helped raise our kids, too. Does that create an extra sense of obligation?
Yes. I love multi-generational households, though I know they’re not for everyone. We were actually building an eight-person house for all of us to live in together. Unfortunately, we lost three of our parents before it was finished, and my son is now in college. As he joked, we're "moving four people into an eight-person house."
But having them live nearby for years was precious.
They helped raise the kids, taught them valuable lessons, and cooked their favorite meals. My in-laws and parents were actually close friends. We used to travel together, which was wonderful since they had peers they could relate to. I hear plenty of challenging in-law stories, but I was fortunate to have amazing in-laws and parents.
Do you have advice for people in their late 30s or early 40s getting ready for this hectic period of managing a career, aging parents, and kids?
I think we've lost the concept of the village.
We live in isolated communities now. Who can watch your dog when you travel? Who can take your kids in an emergency? We need more community support.
For us, our Bible study group is that community. We can call them any time and drop off the kids if needed. The key is finding your support system, whether it's your relatives or your chosen family. You often don't realize how important this is until you need help.
When I was younger, I wanted independence from my parents. Now I understand that family is a source of so much happiness, and having them around makes a huge difference when the unexpected happens.
What's the best way to care for aging parents while respecting their independence?
They want independence, but they also want time with you. We used to have dinner with my in-laws every Sunday, without fail. My mother-in-law was an amazing cook. She would share recipes that I now make myself. They needed some interpretation, since she cooked intuitively; "a sprinkle of salt" isn't very precise!
Ultimately, I think our aging parents just want to be appreciated and to spend time together. And yes, they often care more about the grandkids than us—that's just natural.
How do you prepare for and deal with the grief of losing your parents?
We think our parents are invincible until they're not. Losing my dad 13 years ago, then my mom and in-laws all in the same nine-month period, was incredibly difficult, especially for the kids. But I'm grateful we got to spend their final years seeing them regularly, instead of just brief visits twice a year when they lived across the country.
Don't wait for "someday" to do important things.
I tried scanning my mom's photos near the end so she could tell me who was in each of them, but by the time I got them back from being scanned, she had passed away. That "someday" came too fast.
It seems important to capture their stories too?
Yes. Toward the end, we had our kids interview their grandparents. My daughter wrote an essay for the Chinese American Museum about her grandmother's experience of coming to America with nothing. What struck her was my mother-in-law's deep gratitude for this country. She lived the American dream and was so proud of it. Going through their belongings after they passed, we found so many surprising artifacts, like my father-in-law's letter from NC State saying he couldn't enroll because he had arrived too late.
These were stories they never told us, found in boxes with old clothes and towels. Show genuine interest in their stories while you can.
It's easy to just let them watch TV instead of asking about their experiences. Those stories are precious, and they’re irreplaceable once they're gone.
Raising resilient children and letting them pursue their own interests
Do you have any principles for raising resilient children?
The say-do ratio matters tremendously - what you say and what you do must align.
Be consistent, and when you make mistakes, apologize. Show your kids that you are human and not invincible.
Learning to listen is crucial. Recently, I started publishing a column with my middle child called “The Tiger Mom and Her Cub." She shares her thoughts on everything from dating to her grandmother's funeral. Her younger sister writes about our family traditions.
Seeing their perspective written out reveals things we'd never discuss otherwise. For instance, coming from a Christian background, we never celebrated Santa Claus, because my parents didn't understand the concept. Our kids thought this was completely normal—we just asked them not to tell other children.
If you’re interested in parent-child communication, I would also recommend a book called "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk.” It offers some excellent techniques.
How did the column-writing project with your daughter come about?
It started when she wrote an essay about her grandmother for a contest and received an honorable mention. They had planned to write a column together about bridging generations, but unfortunately, my mother-in-law passed away shortly after. My daughter then asked to continue the project with me.
We discuss various topics, from getting a second dog to college application pressure. As a junior in high school, she's very aware of the burden of our academic backgrounds and success. We develop each column during our evening dog walks, taking turns writing sections before she does the final edit. We publish these on Asian American News and LinkedIn under "Tiger Mom and Her Cubs."
How do you balance being a "tiger parent" with letting kids pursue their own interests?
I realized I was pushing too hard at one point, so I asked my kids how much they wanted me to push. My son wanted the push but without constant conflicts. My daughter rated it as "seven or eight" before dialing it back to "six."
There's a book that compares different parenting styles to carpenters and gardeners. A carpenter shapes their kids into predetermined forms, while a gardener cultivates growth based on the child's nature. You can't let them stagnate—the gardener must invest time and effort—but you shouldn't force them into a specific mold.
I think that's a really good analogy, because your kids might not be interested in the same thing you are. And if they're not interested in it, then it's very hard for them to become good at it.
I agree. However, I also want to teach the kids grit. They all had to play an instrument and try a sport. The agreement was that if they wanted to quit, they would have to figure out what they would replace it with.
Recently, my daughter wanted to quit piano. She's in eighth grade and she said she just wasn't enjoying it that much anymore. Since David is the piano parent, I told her how to negotiate. She needed to go to him and say, "Hey, I'm doing Model UN and Rose Debate, which I wanted to do. Mom wanted me to do this math class. I will do those three things, but I really need to quit piano because there are too many activities." She talked him into it. I taught her how to explain that she'd put her time in and learned how to play but wanted to replace it with something new.
That's funny! Negotiation itself is a very important skill, though maybe you don't want your kids to become too good at it.
Ha! Well, it really is an amazing life skill to be able to ask for what you want, but also offer something that the other person wants in exchange.
Looking back, do you have any closing words of advice on balancing career and family?
You want your kids to have that moment when they say: “This is how I want to live my life, and I need you to support me."
For example, my son decided to go to Boston College, which was his first choice, but not mine. I had wanted him to apply to a number of schools, including Duke, where I went. He said, "Mom, I don't want to do this your way. I want you to let me do this my way." He had struggled with some anxiety during COVID, and he had faced some challenges. I was really proud that he came to me to tell me this was what he wanted and that I needed to back off.
As a parent, those moments are what you're working towards—you want them to be independent and live their dreams, not yours.
None of my kids want to be engineers like I did. When my husband graduated from Harvard Law School, his dad said to him, "It's never too late to go back and get an engineering degree so you have something to fall back on." David said, "But I'm a lawyer!" His dad just said, "Well, you married someone with an engineering degree, so that's okay."
I think the most important thing is helping your kids find their passion and figure out what success looks like for them. From a parenting perspective, your job is both short and long. 18 years seems like a long time, but in so many ways, it’s really short, too. That period when you have influence is really about cultivating that relationship where they can come to you and say whatever they want to say and it's okay, and you support them in whatever they want to do.
I love that advice. I think that independent thinking is really important because it's very easy in college to just do what all the other kids are doing. I hope I can become as good a parent as you Deb!
I think the people who are going to give me the performance review are the three kids, and I'm not sure what they're going to say! But thank you. I just want all parents to realize that this is the most important job you have.
You're replaceable at work, but at home you're not.
Thanks Deb! If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe to Deb’s wonderful newsletter and follow her on LinkedIn.
I am not a parent yet but this is extremely helpful and great article. Thank you